Bioidentical Estrogens Explained

estrogensIn previous blog postings, I’ve discussed hormones that qualify as bioidentical and the power of progesterone.  Here I want to dig a little deeper into the bioidentical estrogens since they are an important, and often misunderstood, part of menopausal treatment.  Although there is only one bioidentical progestin, progesterone, there are actually 3 bioidentical estrogens.  They are estrone (E1), estradiol (E2) and estriol (E3).  They each have different levels of estrogenic activity and biological properties.

Let’s start with the middle one first – estradiol (E2).  This is the primary estrogen in the body and the most potent.   Estradiol accounts for somewhere between 10-40% of the total estrogens circulating in the body.  Estradiol is also the most widely available estrogen as a mass-produced pharmaceutical.  It comes in tablets, patches and creams.  Estradiol is very effective at treating many menopausal symptoms, especially hot flashes and vaginal dryness.  But  because estradiol is so potent, it needs to be dosed carefully.  Overdosing estradiol can lead to many unpleasant side effects like headaches, fluid retention, and break-through bleeding.  Overdosing also increases risks of endometrial and breast cancer and blood clots leading to heart attack or stroke.  Therefore it is extremely important to dose estradiol at the lowest effective dose and to make sure its activity is balanced out with the proper amount of progesterone.  One way to lower the dose of estradiol is to combine it with the less potent estrogen estriol.  I’ll discuss that more later.

Estrone (E1) is the other potent estrogen.  It accounts for 10-20% of the body’s circulating estrogens.  There are a couple of mass produced estrone containing products on the market but they are rarely used.  The main problem with estrone is that it doesn’t appear to be that effective at treating menopausal symptoms but still has many of the unwanted side effects of estradiol.  Most concerning is estrone’s ability to stimulate breast tissue growth which may lead to increased risk of breast cancer.

Finally, estriol (E3) is the weakest estrogen, meaning that it exerts a much milder estrogenic effect than estradiol or estrone.  Estriol accounts for 50-80% of circulating estrogens in the body.  Controversy has surrounded estriol in the past.  Its value was questioned by the FDA in their letters to compounding pharmacies in 2008 (see my post Answering the Critics: the FDA for more information about that).  There are no FDA approved estriol containing products, so the only place to get estriol is through a compounding pharmacy.  The interesting thing about estriol is that even though it is a weak estrogen, it appears to be effective in treating many menopausal symptoms.  Some studies have also shown that it has a higher affinity to the estrogen receptors on breast tissue that are protective against breast cancer.  I think it would be premature to say that estriol prevents breast cancer but the data we have at this point indicates that might be the case.  My experience with estriol is that it is an effective treatment with often lower side effects than the more potent estrogens.  Again, it is important to balance the effect of any of these estrogens with the appropriate dose of progesterone.

Finally, often bioidentical estrogens are prescribed in a combination – either Tri-est or Bi-est.  Tri-est is a combination of all 3 estrogens usually in a 10%/10%/80% (E1/E2/E3) ratio.  The rational behind this combination is that it mimics the normal ratio of these hormones in the body (although clearly there is variability from person to person).  Because of the safety concerns of estrone (E1) and its limited effectiveness, Tri-est had gone out of fashion.  What I see much more of now is Bi-est.  This is a combination of estradiol (E2) and Estriol (E3) in a 20%/80% (E2/E3) ratio.  This combination often relieves menopausal symptoms with a much lower exposure to the more potent estradiol.

One last note… obtaining hormone levels prior to starting any of these treatments and doing follow-up tests after starting them is an important part of finding the exact custom dose to effectively treat menopausal symptoms with the lowest risk of side effects.

I hope this information is helpful.  Please post any comments or questions.

Thank you and live well!

165 Responses to “Bioidentical Estrogens Explained”


  1. 1 Linda April 3, 2009 at 11:03 am

    I have been using progesterone for 4 years and am just now using a little estridiol. My c.p. can not get estriol anymore and I was wondering if I can get it from Cananda or Europe and is it safe to get it there? Thanks :) By the way I hate the FDA and I hope they go under along with Wyeth.

    Linda

    • 2 thecompounder April 4, 2009 at 3:12 pm

      Hi Linda,
      Estriol is still available in the United States, it’s just that many pharmacies are having a hard time getting a hold of it. I think if you call around, you should be able to find a compounding pharmacy that still carries it. If you still can’t find it, let me know and I’ll see if I can track some down for you.

  2. 3 Kellie April 22, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Check out Women’s International Pharmacy. I work for an Integrative Medicine MD and a Naturopath .. most of our female patients using BHRT use this pharmacy.

    Hope this helps !

  3. 4 Allie June 1, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    Hi there
    I started on bio-identical progesterone on March 10. For 2 weeks I had no sleep at all and I felt absolutely FABULOUS! Yes, you read that right. FABULOUS. Clear head, energy galore. It was having the opposite effect on me. What goes up must come down right? Dr. said he hadn’t seen it before but to stick with it and yes it did. I started to sleep. I have had insomnia for years. Now I am getting on some nights, 8 hours of interrupted sleep. What a miracle. I had some mental clarity during the past 3 months but now I am feeling foggy and forgetful again. Almost as if my mind is spinning. My breasts increased in size and I gained some weight. UGH. But I’ll live with that to sleep.
    Now the blood work shows I have very low estrogen and testosterone also. My period is all over the place. Hot flashes and night sweats have gotten better on progesterone along with heart palpatations.

    I am starting on 1 ML daily of Bi-est along with my current dose of 1 ML of progesterone.

    I am worried about weight gain but from what I am reading it is not likely as I am taking progesterone also.

    I had pretty bad water retention and bloating with progesterone and my breasts, well they just got larger and I’m not happy with that. They are big enough.

    Any advice or info. on this matter of weight gain would be appreciated as I am a little leary of starting the Bi-est.

    • 5 thecompounder June 2, 2009 at 5:52 am

      Your reaction to progesterone is definitely unique, but it’s not the first time I’ve heard it. What it says to me is that you are especially sensitive to these hormones. If you are going to start bi-est and testosterone, I would recommend starting at a very low dose and titrating up as you tolerate them. One of the beauties of using a topical cream is that it is very easy to titrate the dose. Just start with 1/4 ml and then increase by 1/4 ml as tolerated up to the 1 ml target dose. Of course, please keep the prescribing doctor in the loop on any changes you might make to his or her prescription directions.

      Monitoring your symptoms will be important throughout this timeframe, as well. I often recommend keeping a daily journal where you write down your symptoms and rate them on a scale of 1 to 10. I would also recommend following-up with a saliva test in 3 to 6 months to make sure your hormones levels are in an appropriate range. It is possible that your progesterone levels might be on the high side. However, since the goal of bioidentical hormone replacement is always hormone balance, getting the appropriate dose of bi-est and testosterone may mitigate some of the adverse effects you are experiencing from the progesterone.

      Good luck and hang in there. Finding the right approach to balancing hormones is a process and can take some time.

      • 6 Allie June 2, 2009 at 8:40 am

        Thank you for your quick response. I really appreciate it. I started this morning on a very low dose as you recommended. It makes sense to me since the progesterone reaction was so severe.
        I felt pretty awful this morning. For the first time ever I took my thyroid pill (Eltroxin) at night 2 nights ago. I never, ever, ever take my thyroid pill at night. That’s how dopey I’ve been feeling. So I had to wait another full day to take it and I was feeling awful. Severe insomnia until 4 am last night until I decided to take my normal thyroid dose 3 hours early. I got to sleep soon after that but woke up feeling really weird. I took my first small dose of estrogen and a couple of hours later my head cleared.

        Could that be do to the estrogen so quickly???
        I teach Grade 2 and I was not in teaching form to say the least until about 10:30.

        Question: I take Eltroxin in the morning about 7. Can I take the estrogen near the same time? I would take it after I shower say between 8 and 8:30 am.

        Also I am to stop taking progesterone during my period. Do I stop the estrogen too during that time also.

        Thanks for your patience with my questions and time!
        Allie

      • 7 thecompounder June 7, 2009 at 6:59 am

        If you are using topical estrogen, then it’s ok to use at the same time as the thyroid tablet. If they are both oral medications, I would wait 2-4 hours after you take the thyroid before taking the estrogen. It usually takes a few days for someone to notice the effects of the estrogen supplementation, although it’s not unheard of to feel effects after the first dose as you did.

        As far as what part of you cycle to take the progesterone and estrogen, I would talk to your doctor about that. There are many different regimens for taking these hormones, some have you taking the estrogen during your period, some don’t.

        Good luck with everything

      • 8 Allie June 11, 2009 at 3:57 am

        Another question please. Started estrogen a week and half ago along with progesterone 3 months ago. I am going up very slowly on my dose since my reaction to progesterone was so severe. (Reved me up for 2 weeks instead of calming me down) I am taking a 1/4 dose of Biest right now in the morning. With just progesterone my sleep was getting pretty fabulous. Now with the Biest I’m finding my sleep not as great and I actually had a night sweat which hasn’t happened for a couple of months. Sleep doesn’t seem as rested and it takes me longer to fall asleep than when just on progesterone. I need to raise my dose of Biest up to 1 ML at some point and I’m thinking if it is having this effect on me at only 1/4 of the dose should I even bother going up further? My mind though does seem to be clearer but my breasts are bigger and than isn’t a good thing because they are big enough.
        Any advice and/or direction is greatly appreciated!

        Allie

      • 9 thecompounder June 15, 2009 at 7:58 pm

        Hi Allie, I would not increase the dose of the bi-est until you tolerate the dose you are at. If the adverse effects you are experiencing do not begin to diminish (or get worse), I would talk to your prescriber about cutting the dose down even more or possibly stopping the bi-est. Often, finding the right dose of hormone supplementation is a process that requires constant adjustment during the beginning stages of therapy. Good luck!

    • 10 Con April 5, 2012 at 9:41 am

      the biest cream will help you reduce you stomach fat but it takes time. I have noticed a huge difference but it took about 9 months for the transistion.

      I am also on natural progesterone cream.

      c

  4. 11 Sandi July 8, 2009 at 7:58 am

    Last week I started using bi-est (.5 mg). Progesterone (200 mg)was also prescribed, but I haven’t started it yet. I was instructed to take the bi-est twice a day every day and the progesterone once a day from the first of the month until the 14th. Is it better to use progesterone every day? I’ve also experienced headaches and some lightheadedness. Are these symptoms common?

    Thanks!
    Sandi

    • 12 thecompounder July 9, 2009 at 9:23 am

      There are lots of different way to do the bi-est/progesterone regimen. Certain doctors have their favored ways of using them and they have legitimate justifications for their views, but there is no difinitive study that supports one regimen over another.

      For progesterone, there are a couple of ways of taking it that I see the most. One is to use the progesterone every day. The other is to use the progesterone on days 14-28 of the cycle. This half-month regimen mimics the body’s lutial phase of the menstrual cycle. For some women it works well. If the progesterone is helping only on the days that a someone is taking it, I usually recommend trying taking it every day to see if it will help every day. There is no down side to that. it just is a departure from the way the ovaries produce progesterone. Your regimen is to use it from the 1st to the 14th, which is unusual. I would check with your doctor to see if they meant for you to use it in the second half of your cycle. Also, at the dosage you are mentioning, I assume that you are using oral progesterone. If you are using the topical form, 200mg is a very high dose.

      For the bi-est, it can be use once or twice daily. I usually recommend taking it in the morning if it is once daily because it can sometimes cause a little insomnia. The symptoms you mention are most likely due to the bi-est, although progesterone in rare instances (especially in high doses) can cause them too. I would recommend, with the support and approval of your doctor, in cutting back on the bi-est and slowly titrating it up to the dose you are at as you tolerate it.

      I hope that helps.

  5. 13 Elena July 8, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Hi Peter,
    Just came across your blog. It’s nice to know that someone out there really cares and provides lots of info on bio hormones. I have few questions if you don’t mind. I’ve been diagnosed with pcos long time ago and was on BC pills until I found out about BHT. Well.. the thing is my estrogen was really low about 47 and testosterone is pretty high ( normal for PCOS i guess) i started taking biest 2.75 gel and progesterone 3% crm.It didn’t do me any good because my E was still low but I’m very sensitive to P so even taking 1/4 of gm of P puts me to sleep for 2 days and i have no energy at all… but it really brings Testosterone down which is a good thing for me.. on the other hand it brings my low E even lower.I was trying different tipes of E ( pills, cream) even whent as high as 3 mg estradiol/ 1mg estriol gel.. but i still don’t get enough even though my blood test shows E at 300. My Pharmacist said I should check blood for free Estrogen . I guess my question is whats happening to all that estrogen I’m taking and what should I do? I still have all the ” low estrogen” symptoms and I still don’t get my period, not even when I take Progesterone. It’s driving me crazy and non of the doctors I’ve been to know whats going on. Can you help?
    thank you,
    E.

    • 14 thecompounder July 9, 2009 at 10:10 am

      Thanks for your positive feedback on the blog.

      It’s difficult to make specific comments about your situation without knowing more of your medical history, but I do have a few comments. First, doing a blood test for free estradiol isn’t a bad idea although I suspect that the results will be similar to what you have been seeing. If you have not done saliva tests, I would recommend doing that as well since blood tests tend not to show hormone increases with hormone supplementation (especially topical dosage forms). If all of those tests continue to show low levels and you continue to experience symptoms of low estrogen, I would recommend trying obtaining your hormone cream from a different pharmacy and if that still doesn’t work, changing the dosage form. It is possible that the hormone is not penetrating the skin and you may need an oral dosage form (this is rare but possible). Also, keep in mind, your doctor will probably need to alter the strength of the medication if they switch from topical to oral dosages.

      I hope that helps. Let me know how it goes. Thanks.

      • 15 Elena July 15, 2009 at 7:27 pm

        Thank you, Peter
        Just to let you know I did try sublingual estrogen ( pills) and it did convert to testosterone( more testosterone) …Just don’t understand why 30mg of progesterone is way too much for me but 3 mg of estradiol is not even close to be enough.. It is pretty high dose for E don’t you think? Just wanted to know your opinion on that. Thanks again,
        E.

      • 16 thecompounder July 20, 2009 at 12:54 pm

        Three milligrams of topical estradiol is on the high-normal side of the dosage ranges that I see. That does not necessarily mean it is an inappropriate dose. As I’ve mentioned in many of my blog posts. Each woman has a unique dosage that is right for her. That dosage is determined by many factors including the number and intensity of symptoms, the amount of endogenous hormones being produced and one’s metabolic activity. The goal of therapy is always to achieve a balance of activities of each hormone as determined by blood/saliva levels and symptom reporting. In your case, it appears that the enzymatic activity that converts estradiol to testosterone (and vise versa) is quite high. This may just be your unique physiology. I recommend continuing to work with your doctor to find that appropriate balance. A saliva test is never a bad idea and often keeping a journal of symptoms (including type of symptom, severity and time of day) can help you achieve that goal. Good luck!

  6. 17 Wendy July 18, 2009 at 10:36 am

    I started on Bioidentical hormone cream in January, 2008. I don’t recall the doses I was started on, but I know my GYN started it on “lowest dose possible”. After the first month, I felt better than I have in years. I am 46, and started having significant perimenopause symptoms about 2 years prior to this – the symptoms were hot flashes, night sweats anxiety, heart palpatations (even had pvcs,and went through extensive testing when I had an abnormal EKG)), memory problems and low sexual desire. My last period was in September, 2008, so I am not quite technically past menopause yet.

    Over the last year and a half on BHRT, I had a few breakthrough symptoms, and my doctor made slight adjustments in my dosage.

    As of April 2009, I was on Bi-Est/Progest/Test 8/50/5(I apply the cream to my left inner arm) About a month AFTER that, I started noticing that many of my original symptoms were returning. I also noticed that a longstanding issues with IBS (diarreah predominant) was getting much worse, with almost constant cramping and lose, thin stools. I also have recurring (not constant) muscle sorness and spasms. A few weeks ago, I started having mild fevers.Last week it was really bad – one fever got up to 102. In an incredible stroke of bad luck, both my GYN and Primary Care physician were on vacation all last week. My compounding pharmacist also was getting ready to be out of the country for several weeks when I called her on July 12th. She recommended that I skip my dosage that night, then start the next morning at half my current dose. She said that my GYN had me on too high of a dose, and that we would need to “take me off of this and start over”. She said “we can do this the quick hard way, or the slower, easier way”. I chose the latter. Since then, I have done exactly as she told me to do. That first night – when I had no dose – was right after I had the 102 fever. I had terrible night sweats that night – worst I have ever had. The next two days – when I took half my ususal dose – I felt a bit anxious, but did not have any other symptoms. My digestive issues also lessened in severity.

    Over the course of this week, since I have reduced my dosage, I have had increasing anxiety, sleep problems and occasional night sweats.I also seem to be having some sort of blood sugar problems – feel very lightheaded and uncomforable if I don’t eat when hungery. I have not had any hot flashes. Last night I had another fever that lasted several hours that remained under 100 degrees. The fevers seem to come more often in the evening after dinnertime. This morning I woke up feeling like I had been hit by a truck – sore all over, depressed mood and tearfulness too.

    I am scheduled to see my physicians this week, and have bloodwork and a pelvic ultrasound scheduled (I haver a history of uterine fibroids and ovarian cysts – could those be aggravated by the BHRT,and could they have been causing my worsening digestive symptoms?). I’m glad to have found your blog, and appreciate any feedback you can offer.

    • 18 thecompounder July 20, 2009 at 12:45 pm

      Boy, that sounds like a very difficult experience. Cause and effect is always difficult to determine. Hormone imbalance could definitely exacerbate any of the symptoms you mention, but it is difficult to say if it is the cause of your symptoms. I’m glad you will be seeing your doctor soon. Hopefully they can get to the bottom of it.

      Please let me know if you find out any answers. I would be interested in what you discover. Thanks and good luck.

  7. 19 Elena July 20, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Thank you very much! One more question..estradiol usually prescribed with estriol, what would be an appropriate combination % wise for 3 mg of estradiol? It’s hard to find a doc who would be knowledgeable about BHRT ..Anyway you could recommend anyone in Nevada? Thanks again!
    E.

    • 20 thecompounder July 26, 2009 at 9:24 am

      The purpose of adding estriol to estradiol is that estriol is a much weaker estrogen but still competes for the same receptors as the more potent estradiol. This allows the amount of the estradiol to be decreased while still getting beneficial estrogenic effects. Some studies have shown protective effects of estriol on estrogen related cancers (like breast cancer). This makes since since it is minimizing the proliferative effects of the more powerful estrogens.

      Traditionally the ratio of estiol/estradiol has been 80%/20% because that was believed to be the natural physiologic ratio in the human body. Newer studies have shown the physiologic ratio to be closer to 50%/50%. In my practice, I usually still see the 80/20 ratio.

      I hope that helps.

      p.s. I unfortuantely don’t know any practitioners in Nevada.

      • 21 Elena August 21, 2009 at 1:37 pm

        Thank you ! Something interesting happened in the last two weeks. After reading Dr Erika’s books I decided to start taking L-carnitine and Co Q-10 supl. So.. before that I felt like any dose of Estrogen I was taking was going through me and not registering in my body ( I don’t know any other way to describe it) about a week after I started taking supplements Estrogen really kicked in! That was amazing!! That same cream that didn’t work before started working..As progesterone goes I don’t have that sensitivity anymore and can take a normal dose. Any thoughts on that? Thank you.
        Elena.

      • 22 thecompounder August 21, 2009 at 3:34 pm

        Interesting info. Thanks for posting.

    • 23 tina October 20, 2010 at 8:33 pm

      Elena,
      I just met this great doctor who specializes in hormonal therapy. His name is Ed Hoffman he is located off Sahara on the west side in Las Vegas NV. hope this helps… I have been on BHRT for a week and there has been quite the improvement in all of the symptoms (except weight thats too soon to tell)

  8. 24 SBurt July 24, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Hope maybe you have an answer – I have been on bi-est cream 3.25 mg, dhea & testosterone cream 10 mg & 1.5 mg. and 1x day progesterone 20 mg and have gained 6 lbs. I am exercising, eating clean, lifting weights – all the things I normally do and yet have gained alot of weight – I am only 5’2″ so 6 lbs. is a lot. Am I on too much hormone? Freaking out!

    Thanks.

    • 25 thecompounder July 26, 2009 at 8:57 am

      Without knowing your entire history, it is difficult to say that the dose you are on is too high. Often, rapid weight gain with hormone replacement therapy is associated with fluid retention. The estrogens are the most likely cuprit, although to a lesser extent, progesterone, and testosterone can contribute to this side effect. I would recommend talking to your prescriber about adjusting your dose. I always recommend using the lowest possible dose to effectively treat symptoms and improve quality of life, so it’s possible that a lower dose of one or more of your hormones could be just as effective as the dose you are on. Good luck and let me know how it works out.
      Peter

  9. 26 judy August 23, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    The first two months on bio-identicals was great, slept thru the night no anxiety no depression, then all hell broke lose now six months later everything is worse than ever before, I wish I nver hear of bio-identicals and I am not having success with stopping

    HELP

  10. 27 vickye September 22, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    I am 41 and had a hysterectomy over 10 years ago. I am on biest/prog/test. I have so many of the symptoms mentioned above, insomnia, weight gain, extreme increase in breast, terrible headaches. I am on the lowest doses of all three. Are these meds right for me?

    • 28 thecompounder September 24, 2009 at 4:36 pm

      I guess I don’t understand your question. Are you on biest/prog/test and now you are having those symptoms? If that’s the case, doing a saliva test and talking with you prescriber is a good idea.

  11. 29 Estelle October 12, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    Hi,I’m on Biest,prog,testost,dhea 2.5mg/80mg/o.5mg/20mg My breasts are very tender and I have terrible insomnia,crampy as well as feeling of malise. my hot flashes are gone and my skin seems better, been “tweeking” for awhile, is it really worth the journey with bioidenticals do people ever feel really good?

    • 30 thecompounder October 13, 2009 at 10:10 am

      Hi Estelle,

      All I can say is that symptoms matter. If you are not feeling well on your current regimen or if your hormones are making you feel worse, you need to look at waht you are on and make adjustments. A saliva test is helpful in the sense that it may point to what homrones are too high, too low, etc., but the symptom profile is just as important if not more important.

      People do feel good, and you should too. One other thing to look at is the cortisol levels and symptoms of chronic stress. If you have had chronic stress and your adrenal glands are not producing the appropriate amounts of cortisol, your body will not utilize the hormones you are taking very well.

      I would follow-up with your prescriber as soon as possible to begin addressing your concerns.

      I hope that helps. Take care.

  12. 31 Jane October 25, 2009 at 3:35 am

    I just started with bioidentical hormones, I find it very confusing to know what dosage I need or even if I am on a lose dosage or high. I found your website very helpful but also it seems I am not the only person out their very confused trying to find a hormone balance. There does not seem to be clear answers if symptoms are from the estrogen or progestrone. I don’t know if I should increase or decrease one or the other. Thanks again for your website it is the only one I found where women are explaining what they are experiencing.

    • 32 thecompounder October 29, 2009 at 10:31 am

      You are not the only one confused. It can be a confusing topic plus the drug companies that make synthetic hormones have gone out of their way to keep the difficult to understand. If people really were seeing this issue clearly and reading the research out there, they would never take a synthetic hormone again.

      It sometimes can be difficult to tell if symptoms are from estrogens or progesterone. Often times it is the ratio of the two that creates something called “estrogen dominance” where your estrogen is normal, but since the progesterone is low, you have symptoms of high estrogen (I wrote a blog post on estrogen dominacce – you can search for it in the search box). I would definitely recommend getting a saliva test. For you, that will give you very useful information about where your hormone level are in relation to normal levels and in relation to each other.

      I hope that helps.

  13. 33 Jane November 2, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Hi Thank you for your reply. I am still trying to find the right ratio of estrogen to progesterone. Last week my dosage was 2/8 0.05 MG/ML of^DIEST and Progesterone 20MG/0.2ML and Testosterone 0.5MG/0.2ML I am in my fifth year of menopause. I was experiencing hot flashes , night sweats, and dryness. My symptoms are getting worse and I now have pelvic pain. I used to have a lot of trouble with fibroids but they subsided with menopause, I think they are back. My question is the dosage. Is this a high or low dosage. Thanks again,Jane

    • 34 thecompounder November 4, 2009 at 10:11 am

      Hi Jane,
      Your dosage seems middle of the road to me, but as I say often, the only way to know if your estrogens and progesterone are balanced is to do a saliva or blood spot test. A regular blood test won’t be useful to you since you’ve already started on treatment. What I often see is that women continue to make varying amounts estrogen through menopause while progesterone drops off. Do the test and I think the answers will become much clearer. Good luck!

  14. 35 Alicia November 23, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    I have been taking Biest and Progesterone (bio identical) for about six months now and while I have put on weight, very annoying…I have generally felt better. However, I recently had an estrogen metabolite test and found that my body makes large amounts of 4 hydroxtestronge and I am therefore in the “red zone”when it comes to my 2-hydroxyestrone/16hydroxyestrone ratio. My Dr. suggests a Bal Est formula of 50%/50% estradiol/estriol but from what I read on your website, this may not be a good idea. I am using the appropriate liver supplements to try to change my metabolism of estrogen. What do you suggest? Thank you!

    • 36 thecompounder November 24, 2009 at 12:04 pm

      Hi Alicia,
      I hope I haven’t given the impression that I am against a 50/50 estradiol/estriol formula. In fact, more recent studies show that the 50/50 ratio probably more closely mimmics our normal hormone ratios. It looks like you are on the right track with the liver support as well. Let me know how the new regimen works. Take care.

  15. 37 Alicia November 24, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Thanks for your prompt answer. A question on DHEA-S. My levels are always very high (in the 300s) while my testosterone is quite low and I do not show the usual signs of excess DHEA. Would you attibute that to stressed adrenals or anything else? When I took pregnenolone it went even higher…I do take Levoxyl and in my recent peri menopause years, my thyroid was very difficult to regulate, I found out due to spiking estrogen levels….why don’t Drs make that connection when women go through hell with their thyroids during peri menopause? Thanks again!

    • 38 thecompounder November 30, 2009 at 3:20 pm

      Hi Alicia,
      For whatever reason, you are metabolizing DHEA to DHEA-S much more efficiently than to testosterone. It may be due to stress or it may just be your natural biochemistry. Certainly, dealing with chronic stress is a good idea for many reasons, including that it will allow your body to utilize the hormones you are taking (estradiol, estriol, thyroid) more efficiently. So, I would recommend that no matter what. And, if you are having symptoms of low testosterone (fatigue, low libido, muscle weakness, etc.), you may also benefit from supplementing with bioidentical testosterone. However, if your symptoms seem well managed, I would just have a watchful waiting approach with the DHEA-S levels and not worry about it for the time being. I hope that helps.

  16. 39 Alicia November 30, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Thanks again. I wonder if you could voice your opinion on cycling the progesterone and Biest. I see that Dr. Hertoghe recommends progesterone for days 13-25 and estrogen from days 1-25. Do you think this may help with weight gain? Also, if my estrogen metabolism is not in the healthy range and I have a thyroid problem, should I avoid DIM and Indole 3 carbinol altogether and stick to the liver protocol (ie: milk thistle, NAC, alpha lipoic acid, TMG etc..). One more – do you have any experience with the gluathione patches that Suzanne Somers recommends in her latest book? They sound intriguing! thanks again…

    • 40 thecompounder December 3, 2009 at 4:14 pm

      It sounds like your regimen is a reasonable one. Cycling estrogens and progesterone like that more closely mimics the natural production of those hormones throughout the menstrual cycle.

  17. 41 beverly December 21, 2009 at 11:59 am

    I take Bio-Identical hormones. I am on oral 50/50 Bi-Estrogen 1MG once daily and oral Progesterone 100 MG. I use Testosterone cream at 1% and use 2 to 4 lines daily (10 MG syringe). I have gained 22 lbs in 2 years on this regimen. How can I lose the weight and keep from gaining on these hormones. Does it sound as though one or more drug may be too high? Any help you can give would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    Beverly

    • 42 thecompounder December 23, 2009 at 2:48 pm

      Hi Beverly,

      Understanding and monitoring your symptoms is an improtant part of making sure you are on the right hormone regimen. The other part is periodically obtaining hormone levels to make sure they are in the optimal ranges. I would recommend that you get a saliva test and test, at minimum, your estradiol, progesterone, and testosterone levels (you could also add an estriol level in there if you want). This will hopefully point out some areas where you might need to adjust some of your dosages to optimize your hormonal balance.

      I hope this helps.

  18. 43 CSM in Vero FL March 14, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Hello Peter!

    What a great blog with wonderful information for us!! I am learning so much here!!. Thank you for putting this information out to the public–it is NO WHERE else to be found.

    I am a nurse practitioner who is new to bHRT I am reading extensively about it trying to find out the best menopausal dose for myself to improve and protect MY bones —ONLY–not dosing for patients. I am slender; my dexa says “osteopenia” of the spine.

    As I am learning about bio-identicals—indications and dosing, I find there seem to be 3 types of practitioners.

    1. The traditional MD who prescribes only Pharmaceuticals for HRT—they may do blood work but think that sputum levels are a ‘waste of money’.

    2. The MD who draws labs work (blood) and orders estrogen and progesterone (bio-identical) but seems to have little idea or no notion about adjusting the dose –or advising the patient about sequential or continuous HRT. This describes my doctor. She also offers SotoPelle implantables.

    3. Dr. John Lee types who prescribe bio-identicals only if they are needed and order sputum levels to follow and adjust dosing. I am convinced this is the right way to go. There is no practicing doctor of this type in my community.

    I have just started bHRT this week.

    My serum estrogen level was 67—(a normal pre-meno level.) My MD ordered Biest Cream 50/50 4 mg. ½ cc daily topically and Progesterone Cream 100mg topically daily before knowing my estrogen level and forgot that I wanted to dose sequentially. These doses seem high to me after reading the info here and other books.

    I just started using the estrogen cream and last week have already noted a weight gain and other estrogen dominant symptoms—so stopped it and started using 20 mg of progesterone cream at hs—I plan to do this for 21 days.

    There is no MD in this area who prescribes the way I have become convinced that HRT needs to be dosed.

    Can you advise me on a course of action? Should I stop all HRT for a week and get saliva levels? Then, start at a low dose of estrogen and or progesterone per Dr. John Lee? Will the saliva results clue me in about what to do with my dosing?

    Alternatively, can you direct me to a site where I can learn about dosing using sputum levels to adjust my dose? Any wisdom you can send my way would certainly be appreciated.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to consider all of this.

    Sincerely,

    C. S. Martin

    • 44 thecompounder March 17, 2010 at 5:16 pm

      The blood levels can be useful as a baseline before you start using the hormones. However, once you start supplementing with hormones (especially topical ones), the increased amount of hormone acting on the cells in the body is not accurately reflected in the serum levels. This is where saliva testing is really useful. It looks at intracellular hormones (the ones having their physiologic activity on the body) and generally reflect the amount of hormone being taken.

      In my opinion 4mg of a Bi-est (50/50) is a very high dose of estrogen and 100mg of topical progesterone is on the high side as well. With my patients, I always recommend starting low, and gradually going up on the hormone doses. It is much easier to add more hormone than to take hormone out of the body. For any follow-up testing, I would definitely doing a saliva test.

      Check out ZRT’s website, they have lots of useful information about their tests as well as where to find practitioners who use them.

      I hope that helps.

      Peter

  19. 45 CSM March 14, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    PS can you suggest a reliable saliva testing lab?

    Thanks.

    Carla

  20. 47 Shonna March 31, 2010 at 9:00 am

    I have been on biest for several years, I am 45 and had to have a surgical hyster when I was 30, tried other hrt and did not do well. I had been taking Troche 80/20 and .75 progesterone included. I didn’t feel great but stayed with it….since october i have had night sweats. not sleeping through the night~ so I saw DR and she upped the dosage with change to 60/40 and 100 progesterone. I had gained weight to no avail before the change and now have noticed in 2 weeks time i am getting bigger….what is your suggestion? also, i have breast soreness now…….please help!

    • 48 thecompounder April 5, 2010 at 4:49 pm

      It definitely sounds like your hormones are not balanced, so I would recommend doing a saliva test to see where your levels are at. I would definitely test estradiol and progesterone. If you have been under a lot of stress lately, it would be a good idea to do a 4 point cortisol test to see how your adrenal function is working. Diminished adrenal function can adversely affect your hormone balance as well as cause some of the symptoms you are mentioning. The test results will help indicate what type of imbalance you might have and how best to correct it. In my pharmacy, I use ZRT labs, and have been happy with them. To find a provider in your area that carries their tests, go to https://online.zrtlab.com/zrtonline/findprovider.aspx.

      I hope that helps.

      Peter

  21. 49 Kat April 7, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Hello :) I’m a 41 year old female and just started bioidenticals. My doctor gave me a prescription for Biest 20/80 estradiol, estriol. I’m a bit confused about the whole estriol thing in the fact that the research I’ve been doing suggests that estriol is only important during pregnancy and is made by the placenta.

    Does this mean that women who aren’t preganant normally don’t have estriol circulating in their system? I understand that it is a “safer” estrogen, but I am led to wonder if this is natural to make the majority of my prescription estriol instead of estradiol (even though it’s “safer”).

    I’m also wondering how I can get my doctor to switch my dosage to 50/50 since this website is not the only place I have read that women feel better on that dosage. I think generally doctor’s feel more confident prescribing a safer estrogen, but I would like to bring my estrogen levels to that of when I was in my 20′s, and I don’t know that this ratio is going to do that. I don’t think I was given enough estradiol.

    I guess I’m just confused about the estriol. It wasn’t even on my saliva test results. Is estriol normal when you aren’t pregnant?

    Thanks,
    Kat

    • 50 thecompounder April 14, 2010 at 6:39 pm

      Hi Kat,

      This is a very insightful question. Yes, we primarily make estriol during pregnancy, but there is also circulating estriol in the bloodstream at other times, mainly because it is a metabolite of estradiol. Early studies indicated that about 80% of circulating estrogens were estriol. This lead practitioners to dose Bi-est in an 80/20 radio of estriol/estradiol to match physiologic ratios. Later research showed that the amount of estriol was closer to 35% leading those in the field to reconsider the 80/20 radio in favor of a 50/50 ratio to more closely mimic the physiologic ratio.

      I see both in my practice. Since estriol is the weakest estrogen and may have beneficial long term effects especially on breast tissue, I don’t see a real problem using the 80/20 Bi-est, even though the 50/50 Bi-est is closer to our normal ratio. The body will also likely re-establish the amounts of the 3 estrogens after supplementation rather quickly (i.e. convert estradiol into estrone and estriol).

      If you are switching from an 80/20 bi-est to a 50/50 bi-est you must be careful to adjust the dose. The dose of an equivalent 50/50 bi-est is about 30% the dose of the 80/20 bi-est. This is because the equivalent dose is based off of the amount of estradiol in the medication since it is the strongest estrogen.

      You mention wanting to bring your estrogen levels to that of when you were in your 20′s and I just want to caution you as to not overdose on the estrogens. For many women, depending on their natural production of estrogens, even 0.5mg of estradiol can lead to superphysiologic levels. This can lead to a desensitization of the estrogens by the body.

      I see this all the time. A patient will tell me that they felt great on a high dose of estrogens for about a months and then they started feeling terrible, so the doctor increases the dose. This time they feel great for about 2 weeks and then feel terrible.

      Ultimately, feeling well is achieved not by having levels like a 20 year old by having a balance of the activites of the different hormones. The patient I mentioned above will only have a long standing benefit from the hormone replacement if the amount of estrogen is balanced out by the correct amount of progesterone (which often requires lowering the estrogen dose and increasing the progesterone dose along with addressing adrenal and thyroid function).

      The bottom line is that switching to the 50/50 bi-est is not a terrible idea keeping in mind that the dose should be decreased to be equivalent to your current 80/20 dose. Make sure you have enought progesterone to balance out the estrogens you are taking. And address any issues of chronic stress. This is a recipe for success. It takes some time and attention to get it right, but once you do, you will be rewarded.

      I hope that helps.

      Peter

  22. 51 Alicia April 15, 2010 at 3:06 am

    Having read your comments on Biest and Balest (50/50) being different strengths, I wonder if you can comment on changing from Balest to Biest and whether one needs to take a larger dose in that case. I did not see significant gains with Balest (other than weight!) and am thinking of trying Biest. Also my testosterone levels (via blood testing as unfortunately my Dr. uses blood not saliva) have not gone up even though I have used the cream every day. Would that suggest a problem with my compounding pharmacy? Thanks for you response.

    • 52 thecompounder April 20, 2010 at 1:16 pm

      I am not too familiar with Balest so it is difficult for me to comment on that particular product. If you are converting from a Bi-est 80/20 to a Bi-est 50/50 you need to cut the dose to about 30% of the 80/20 dose to have an equivalent effect of the estradiol. This is an important point, and one that is often missed leading to overdosing of the estrogens.

      If you are using a topical testosterone, it is possible that the hormone is there but not showing up in the blood test. I would recommend doing a saliva test (I use ZRT and you can find one of their providers at https://online.zrtlab.com/zrtonline/findprovider.aspx). This will often show a more accurate increase of hormone levels with topical administration than blood testing.

      I hope that helps. Take care.

      Peter

  23. 53 Kat April 18, 2010 at 4:52 am

    Hi again. I’m 41 and have all my parts. Still menstruating. Thanks for your help and answering questions!

    Taking 0.2 ml biest (80/20) days 3-26, and 0.4 progesterone days 14-26.

    The first day I started taking the hormones I was hot all day. Now I’m hot at night. I wouldn’s say classical hot flash, but temp wise uncomfortably hot.

    Two days ago I told the doctor about this, and she told me to cut the dose of the biest down to 0.1 ml. I think it’s making me even hotter than before.

    Does that mean that I actually needed more biest and not less?

    Thanks,
    Kat

    • 54 thecompounder April 20, 2010 at 1:12 pm

      Hi Kat,
      With new doses of hormone creams, it usually takes a few weeks for the levels to reach a steady state. It is often impossible to tell if you need more or less of a hormone cream without trying different doses, or even better, retesting your hormone levels with a saliva test. It is definitely a process and can take a few months of working with the dosages to get it just right. Good luck!

      Peter

  24. 55 Paula May 7, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Hi, this website is very informative and I was wondering if I could ask you a question.
    I have PCOS and found that taking Diane-35 bcp was effective in treating all my symptoms, although I stopped because of the dangers associated with synthetic ethinyl estradiol.
    My question is, can I take biest instead and what dose would equal the same as what is contained in Diane-35 ? I believe the dose in Diane-35 is 0.035mg of ethinyl estradiol.
    Thanks.

    • 56 thecompounder May 10, 2010 at 2:24 pm

      Hi Paula,

      It is impossible to do an exact dosage conversion from synthetic hormones (i.e. birth control pills) so bio-identical ones. And, we probably wouldn’t want to anyway, because equivalent doses would most likely be higher than normal physiologic levels, which we try to avoid. If you have been off the birth control pill some time, I would recommend starting as any patient would with a saliva test to see where your levels are and go from there.

      I hope that helps.

      Peter

      • 57 Paula July 13, 2010 at 6:09 am

        Hi Peter,

        Thanks so much for your response :-}
        I was given Biest cream and Progesterone cream so I’m going to give them a try and see if it helps.

        My question is, if your testosterone and DHEA are higher and my other hormones (estradiol and progesterone) are lower, can taking the Biest and Progesterone help to decrease the other circulating hormones which are wreaking havoc ?

        Also, from what I know, if your estradiol is low, it can raise your insulin, or cause insulin resistance….which is another problem that I deal with and I notice that during certain times of the month my blood sugar is uncontrollable despite eating very healthy and exercising.

        Thank you again !

      • 58 thecompounder July 20, 2010 at 10:32 am

        Hi Paula,

        Finding the proper balance of estradiol and progesterone will help with insulin resistance. More importantly, adrenal function, as measured by cortisol levels, will have a definite impact on insulin release and insulin resistance.

        Regarding your other question, if my patients come in with moderately-high testosterone and DHEA levels without supplementation, I usually don’t worry about it unless they are having symptoms related to those hormones. Obviously, if the patient is on testosterone or DHEA supplementation, I would lower the dose or stop the supplementation. I would still, however, look at balancing estrogens and progesterone if the patient is having symptoms related to those hormones. Like I’ve said before, the best approach to supplementation is to look at both the hormone levels and the symptom profile. The goal of therapy should always be to relieve symptoms and improve the long-term health outlook.

        I hope that answers your questions. Take care.

        Peter

  25. 59 Ashly July 12, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    I’m 24 years old and have recently had my hormones tested via saliva testing and serum testing. My estrogen level is low, sitting in the 30′s and has not moved over the course of a month (serum). My progesterone level has also stayed stable at 0.7 (serum). I have also been told I have ovarian cysts (golfball sized). I’m looking to start bio-identicals and I’m trying to figure out the best way to cycle them. I have not had a period now for two years.
    My doctor has given me her opinion which is 0.5mg bi-est 50/50 days 5-25 and 20mg progesterone days 15-25. my concern is that my estrogen levels are too low. i would like any opinion you have on my situation.

    • 60 thecompounder July 20, 2010 at 10:20 am

      Hi Ashley,
      It is difficult to make a specific recommendation regarding your treatment since I don’t know your entire history, but I never think its a bad idea to start low and gradually increase the dose. We use the phrase, “start low and go slow”. Its always easier to add in more hormones than try to get too much hormone out of your system.

      I hope that helps.

      Peter

      • 61 Ashly July 20, 2010 at 10:54 am

        Do you typically see women my age with hormonal issues such as this? (low estradiol and progesterone levels?) Do you recommend starting both hormones during the same month or trying to increase estrogen levels before progesterone levels or vice versa? I’m struggling from extreme fatigue and have had gradual weight loss without trying over the last year. I have started on the 0.5mg bi est 50/50. I have not noticed any difference in the way I feel.

      • 62 thecompounder July 20, 2010 at 11:48 am

        Hi Ashley,

        Yes, I have seen women your age with hormone imbalance issues. For my pateints, I start them on both estrogen and progestrerone at the same time. I don’t see any benefit from starting one without the other since one hormone’s activity is optimized only when all the other hormones are optimized as well. Your reported symptoms of extreme fatigue and gradual weight loss can be due to any number of issues (not all of them hormone based). I would make sure your doctor is looking all all possibilities (including adrenal and thyroid function) as well as estrogen/progesterone balance.

        Good luck and take care.

        Peter

  26. 63 Diane July 18, 2010 at 11:31 am

    I just started using Bi-Est (50-50 E2E3) Prog 1 ml each day. As in just started two days ago, I am much calmer, normnally feeling alittle OCD but these last two days I have sat down to read and fallen a sleep. Is this normal? And if so how long will this last, I work 9 to 10 hrs a day and can’t be falling a sleep at my desk.
    And will I gain weight on this? I weigh about 130 now and had back surgery about 7 years ago, I don’t want to gain weight and put anymore pressure on my back.

    Thanks – Diane

    • 64 thecompounder July 20, 2010 at 10:36 am

      Hi Diane,

      If your are gaining inordinate amounts of weight, that would definitely be something to look at with a follow-up saliva test. When my patients start on a new hormone regimen (especially if they haven’t been on hormones at all), I usually tell them to try their initial dose for a month and then re-evaluate their symptoms. Often times there needs to be some dose adjustment during the first few months since everyone’s optimal dose is unique to them.

      If you want a good symptom checklist, you can download one from my website at http://www.koshlandpharm.com/Bioidentical_Hormone_Replacement_Therapy.html

      Thanks and good luck.

      Peter

  27. 65 Ron'a Cushman July 20, 2010 at 6:00 am

    Hi Peter,

    Quick question regarding topical vs oral BHRT (P4 as well as E2/E3 combo). When taking oral medications so much of the drug is metabolized with the first pass that I’m not sure how much is available for use. Using topical preparations bypasses this. What are the benefits of prescribing oral Biest and P4 micronized SR capsules instead of topically applied cremes.

    Thanks,
    Ron’a

    • 66 thecompounder July 20, 2010 at 11:41 am

      Hi Ron’a,

      I think the crux of this most recent clinical trial (which is supported by previous trials) is that we should move away from oral estrogens for the most part. Progesterone is another story. At my pharmacy, I have many patients on sustained-release oral progesterone. I find the benefit of progesterone is that it helps patients whose primary complaint is difficlut sleeping. Yes, there is lots of metabolism with oral hormones, but one of the metabolites of progesterone is very sedating and helps patients sleep. One thing to keep in mind is that there needs to be a dose adjustment if you are switching from topical to oral dosing and vise versa.

      Take care.

      Peter

  28. 67 Tracey August 20, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    My primary care doctor prescribed pregnenolone 30mg capsules and a combination cream with BIEST (80/20) and DHEA 5mg. For my low cortisol, DHEA, E1, E2 and testosterone levels. I got the prescription from a compounding pharmacy. I have been diagnosed with mild HYPERTHYROIDISM. My symptoms are anxiety, heart palpitations, weight loss, and headaches. I am afraid to start the medication for fear it will make my hyperthyroid situation worse causing more irregular heartbeats and anxiety.

    Thanks
    Tracey

  29. 68 Annie be August 25, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Hello!
    Glad to find this site, thank you!
    Now I have questions if I may. I just started taking Troche, Bi-est/prog/dhea 3/200/50mg, a few days ago. What exactly do these numbers mean?
    From reading these post it would appear that I am on a rather high dose. Am I?
    Others wrote of 1/4 and 1 being high. Can you explain and perhaps lead me in a direction (such as web sites) so that I can be better educated and understanding how i can better care for my future well being?
    Thank you,
    hope you have an enjoyable day,
    Annie

    • 69 thecompounder August 25, 2010 at 4:00 pm

      It’s difficult to say what exactly those numbers mean. Unfortunately, sometimes pharmacies truncate the name to fit it on their prescription label. I would check with the pharmacy that made the troches to get more clarification.

      Peter

      • 70 Annie be August 26, 2010 at 2:21 pm

        Hi Peter,
        Spoke to the compounding pharmacies for clarification regarding above letter.
        It is 3mg. Bi-est (20%E2, Estradoil and 80% E3, Estriol) 200mg. Progesterone and 50mg. DHEA. I cut them in half which means I get 1 & 1/2 mg. Bi-est. 100mg. Progesterone and 25mg of DHEA a Day. Regarded my past question are these amounts high for daily dosing? What is considered average? And can you direct me to a web page(s) were I can better educate myself
        regarding Bio’s??
        Thanks Peter for your time and providing a wonderful service to others!
        Blessings,
        Annie

      • 71 thecompounder August 30, 2010 at 3:37 pm

        Hi Annie,
        See my blog post: New Study Confirms Preference of Topical Estrogens Over Oral Estrogens for a link to that most recent trial.
        Peter

      • 72 thecompounder August 30, 2010 at 3:56 pm

        Hi Annie,

        It is difficult for me to comment on the correctness of your dose since I’m not familar with your history, labs, etc.

        That being said, there are 2 things to keep in mind when determining if a hormone regimen is appropriate for a particular person. First is symptom monitoring. Keeping track of your symptoms can be very helpful in making sure a dose is right. Monitor whether your symptoms are improving, whether there are any new symptoms, etc. Often I have my patients rate their symptoms on a scale from 0 to 10 and periodically check and see if the rating is changing over time. The primary goal of BHRT is to improve symptoms, so it makes sense to keep track of them. There are some good symptom checklists on my website at http://www.koshlandpharm.com/Bioidentical_Hormone_Replacement_Therapy.html.

        Second, it is important to monitor hormone levels periodically. Since you are on a sublingual dosage form, saliva testing is probably not he best option for you. The blood spot test from ZRT Labs is a good alternative. Since everyone produces and utilizes hormones differently, what may be the perfect dose for one person may be totally wrong for another. These tools help us determine the right dose for your unique physiology.

        I don’t know of any other websites that have good information about bioidentical hormones, but I can recommend a couple of good books: Awakening Athena by Kenna Stephenson, MD, and Are Your Hormones Making You Sick by Eldred Taylor, MD. You can find links to purchase those on my website as well at http://www.koshlandpharm.com/Books.html. Also, this blog has a lot more information about bioidentical hormone replacement. A good place to start is the post Bioidentical Hormones Explained.

        I hope that helps.

        Peter

  30. 73 Annie be August 25, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Hello Again,
    Just read your last response to a posting.
    Why should we be moving away from oral Estrogen? I am taking oral, Troche. Please see my post about 5 min. ago.
    Thank you,
    Annie

    • 74 thecompounder August 25, 2010 at 3:29 pm

      Hi Annie,
      Technically a troche is a sublingual dosage form. A majority of the hormone is absorbed through the mucosal layer underneath the tongue directly into the blood stream. This mitigates most of the first-pass metabolism of the hormone through the liver that is believed to be responsible for causing the increased risk.

      The concern with oral estrogens is that there appears to be an increased risk of blood clots with that dosage form which can lead to heart attacks and strokes.

      I hope that answers your question.

      Peter

      • 75 Annie be August 26, 2010 at 12:01 pm

        Hello Peter,

        Thank you for your response.
        Can you please send me a link about this, is this research?
        Regarding the risk of blood colts from troche. What is felt to be the safest most effective form of Bio-identicals?
        And were may I read of this research as well?

        Thank you Peter!
        Annie =)

  31. 76 Kris September 27, 2010 at 11:45 am

    I am 69 and a year ago after saliva testing, started taking a compound of Bi-Est 0.5, Progesterone 200 and Melatonin 8 mg. capsules along with a testosterone cream and DHEA. I slept well, regained my mind and had tons of energy. Then in July I refilled a 90-day supply and immediately all of my symptoms returned along with major insomnia. Two months into the prescription I took it back to the pharmacy and was given troches instead. For a week and a half, everything was great again – went right to sleep, although I woke up at 4 a.m. every day. Then the symptoms returned again taking the same troches. I can be sleepy but as soon as the troches melt I am wide awake again and stay that way all night. My mind doesn’t race, just totally awake. Any ideas?

    • 77 thecompounder October 10, 2010 at 9:53 pm

      Whenever symptoms return suddenly with a prescription refill or when you get your prescription at a different pharmacy, it is worth looking further into that batch of capsules from the pharmacy – how was it made, what is the pruity of the chemicals used, etc. It may be worth trying another pharmacy or having them remake the batch and see how you do.

      Whenever you switch dosage forms, you will change the pharmacokinetics of the medications, in other words you change how the medication enters the body and in what form. With troches, generally approximately half of the medication goes directly into the bloodstream through absorption under the tongue and half is swallowed and is metabolized extensively by the liver before entering the body. Since you were on an oral dosage form before, this may equate to a much higher amount of the actual hormone entering your body which could definitely give you a different effect.

      Insomnia is not always due to hormone imbalance, however hormone imbalance often leads to insomnia. I would certainly test you hormone levels to rule out any homone imbalances, then begin to look further into other causes of the insomnia.

      I hope that helps.

      Peter

  32. 78 Dawn October 8, 2010 at 7:03 am

    Hello Peter,

    I could really use some help understanding all this. I was prescribed Biestrogen/Progesterone in Vanpen Cr 2.5mg
    (50/50)/20mg/0.5ml

    After using this cream for 3 weeks, I found I was still having night sweats and insomnia, so I was told to up the dosage to twice a day instead of once, and to take a progesterone capsule 150 mg at night.

    I am 5’7″ and 130 pounds. I had a recent hysterectomy (3 months ago) but kept one ovary.

    Would 2.5mg a day be considered a high dose? I feel pretty good on all this, but I worry about the amount of estrogen I’m taking and wonder if I didn’t give the once a day dose long enough to take hold. I was estrogen dominant before the surgery and I am now rid of all of those symptoms.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Dawn

    • 79 thecompounder October 10, 2010 at 10:29 pm

      Hi Dawn,

      I often get questions from patients wondering if their dose of bioidentical hormones looks “right.” Since I have not looked at your medical history or done any sort of clinical work-up of you as a patient, it would be inappropriate for me to supercede the opinions of those who have started you on this therapy.

      There are a couple of things that I do see out there that are worth mentioniong. First, the symptoms of too much hormone are the same as those of not enough hormone. It is especially important not to overdose on the hormones, especially estrogens, for long term safety and for short term symptom relief. My motto is always to start low and go slow. It’s always easier to add more hormones in than try to get them out of the body. The physiologic output of estradiol during the folicular phase varies from woman to woman, but is generally less than a milligram per day.

      The second thing is that blood tests do not register increases in hormone levels with topical dosage administration. This misunderstanding often leads to a lot of overdosing. I always recommend saliva testing in patients on topical hormones. I know other practitioners who use blood spot or urine testing.

      Finally, symptom monitoring is very important. If your symptoms are not being resolved (or are getting worse), it is definitley worthwhile to follow-up with your prescriber and try to figure out what’s happening.

      I hope that helps.

      Peter

  33. 80 Dawn October 11, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Thank you Peter. It does help. I think I’ll go back to see this doctor – I feel good on the 5mg total, but it does seem like a lot. I think I missed the “go slow” part and was impatient after taking the 2.5mg for three weeks. Maybe I didn’t give it enough time. I will also ask about the saliva testing. Thanks again.

  34. 81 J.Martins October 15, 2010 at 6:23 am

    I am using bioidentical hormones cyclic (1 to 24 of every month)from a year to now and I feel fine. However, i have the problem of bleeding while taking hormones. The bleeding should begin at the time of pause and this has not happened. At first my doctor increased progesterone from 50 ml to 200 ml (transdermal cream), but the problem remained. Then increased estradiol gel 0.5 mg to 2 mg. He says that perhaps the endometrium is not being formed. Is this the correct procedure?
    Thanks. Sorry for my bad english.

  35. 82 kdee October 16, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Been on Estradiol since 2005 .5mg due to early menopause. hysterectomy in 1989. Still have my ovaries. all annual checkups fine.Moy Mom who is 77 still on hrt, no probs. Doc wants me to cut back, then get off. reccommended 1 every other day. Have done this for 1 month,feel awful, headaches..hot flashes are back , can’t stay asleep at night. awake each 2-3 hrs. I understand lowest dose for least amount of time, however…I felt so much better before?

  36. 83 Ingrid October 17, 2010 at 6:24 am

    I am using bioidentical hormones cyclic (1 to 24 of every month)from a year to now and I feel fine. However, I have the problem of bleeding while taking hormones. The bleeding should begin at the time of pause and this has not happened. At first my doctor increased progesterone from 50 ml to 200 ml (transdermal cream) and Prometrin (100mg), but the problem remained. Then increased estradiol gel 0.5 mg to 2 mg. He says that perhaps the endometrium is not being formed. Is this the correct procedure?
    Should I increse estradiol when I start bleeding in the the middle of the month?
    In my experience increase estradiol this month didn´t stop bleeading yet (I’m bleading for 10 days)
    Thanks. Sorry for my bad english.

  37. 84 lmiller257 November 1, 2010 at 11:28 am

    I started using a compound of Biest/Test 0.5/50/0.25 MG/ML for hot flashes and night sweats two weeks ago. I am taking a dose in the morning and one at night. It has definitely been helping with my hot flashes and night sweats.

    I would like to lose some weight using HCG homeopathic weight loss drops along with a low calorie diet. Do you know if I can continue using the compound HRT with this? It says if you are doing HRT and it contains HCG, you shouldn’t use the HCG weight loss drops. I’m not sure if my compound that I am using contains HCG.
    Thanks

  38. 86 Lori November 8, 2010 at 8:46 am

    I’m glad I found your site! I am wondering if you can answer a question for me. I have long felt estrogen dominant. I’m almost 48yrs old. Anyway, I have been dealing with an incredible increase of pvcs with my period and insomnia most nights. The pvcs have been running more constant the first 2 weeks of my cycle and seem to let up the last 2 weeks. So my dr is prescribing a very low dose (25mg 2xper day) of sublingual progesterone. Do you find that the progesterone helps calm the pvcs? I’ve been using over the counter progesterone cream that has helped with other estrogen dominant symptoms but has had no effect on these pvcs or insomnia. I’m just wondering if I’m feeling too hopeful that progesterone will stop this. I’m also taking a tincture of adaptogens to help with my adrenal function in hopes of leveling out my hormones. The reason I ask is because I read that too much progesterone can cause an increase in pvcs. So I don’t know what to believe or expect. Thanks!!

    • 87 thecompounder November 8, 2010 at 9:26 pm

      Hi Lori,

      I have found in my practice that often times late cycle symptoms like yours often come from progesterone deficiency. However, I would definitlely do a saliva test to look at, at least, estradiol levels and progesterone levels to make sure this is actually the case. I would recommend either doing a female cycle map where you do 10 or 11 samples during the course of your cycle or a single test on one of the days your are having symptoms. I think this would be very useful. If those tests show estrogen dominance/progesterone deficiency, I think it would be reasonable to address that imbalance with supplemental progesterone. In addition, it is never a bad idea to look at adrenal and thyroid function as well.

      I hope that answers your question. Thanks.

      • 88 Lori November 10, 2010 at 8:32 am

        Thank you so much for the reply. In October, I saw an endocrinologist who took a blood sample on day 2 of my menstrual cycle. I was having the heart palpitations pretty constant on that day and during that time of my cycle. He tested my thyroid antibodies as well as my FSH and estrodial? Is that what they normally check when testing for menopausal symptoms? Anyway, all levels came back normal. So based on that, would you think I am producing an acceptable amount of estrogen but possibly not enough progesterone? I can’t seem to get any of my doctors to really explain hormone function/fluctuation in regards to tests that I have had done and what any of it means. The reason I ask is I have been reading that too little estrogen can cause heart palpitations and insomnia just as too much can. But if I had blood drawn during the time of my cycle where my estrogen should be at its lowest and the levels were normal, then does it stand to reason that my progesterone could be lacking in ratio to my estrogen. I will begin my progesterone supplements on Friday of this week but want to understand as best as I can if the progesterone could be considered low since I did have FSH and estrodial checked and were considered normal.

        I so appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions! I am one who really wants to understand things as best as I can.

  39. 89 Marie November 16, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    My question is regarding the use of 32 Gm Estriol/DHEA 3MG/3MG/GRAM- using 1,2 MLS a night. I am 45 and still having regular periods, though extremely heavy, as I suffer from uterine fibroids. I took a saliva test this past June: Estradiol was 2.0, progesterone was 192 and Pg/E2 ratio a tad low at 96. DHEA was 5.4. Besides heavy periods, no other symptoms until August, when I started experiencing itching and soreness. Dr assumed it was a yeast infection, though I doubted this but took the diflucan…it went away. It came back in October and doc did an “exam”…I had my period and it was so heavy I had to leave sanitary product inserted. He did no swab. Doc said my issue was vaginal dryness….though I am not sure I even have this condition. He actually first prescribed Estrace, but I didn’t want to use that product, and after a consultation with a compounding pharmacy he works with and I trust and my research, they agreed estriol was the way to go. However, I started this on Nov 1st, day 6 of my cycle and started breakthrough bleeding on November 7th. On November 8th evening, I suddenly felt like I was hit by a truck and was freezing cold….had a temp near 101, which was gone by the morning…just a terrible headache, which left by the mid day. I stopped the cream on November 9th, as the bleeding was continuing, and it is still continuing today (November 16th) and it seems to be increasing. I am only using over the counter progesterone cream, and it has never caused any problems for me.

    Question: I assume this is the cream causing the bleeding. Is that a valid hypothesis? Could the fever also be due to the cream? It seems as if my saliva test showed I had quite enough estrogen. I have been looking at a condition called cytolitic vaginitis, and wonder if that is my condition, not vaginal dryness. Therefore, could excess estrogen potentially be causing these problems? Is it unusual for breakthrough bleeding to last this long, or should I expect this to last through to my next expected period?

    Thank you so much for your site.

    Marie

  40. 90 Lisa November 20, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Hi! I just started taking bio-identical hormones 2days ago. I am taking estradiol/estriol/prog 50/50 .625/20 mg/ml cream. My Doctor refused to do any blood work or saliva testing. She said since I am 47 and menopausal, she didn’t need to test me.
    In the past 2 days I started taking the cream, I have had headaches, nausea, and pain in my lower right abdomen.
    I didn’t take it today and all the symptoms went away except for the pain.
    I will call my Doctor Monday. My question is , I see here that some people have side effects with their intestines. Why is that? Thanks.

    • 91 thecompounder December 5, 2010 at 3:24 pm

      I realize that this post is from a couple of weeks ago, so I hope your issues have been resolved. If you start the hormones and symptoms arise and then stop them and the symptoms go away, it is definitely important to look further at your regimen to make sure you are getting the appropriate dose.

      I’m not sure exactly why hormone imbalances or overdosing on hormones can cause gastrointestinal side effects, but I do see it occasionally. It is most likely due to estrogen effects on the small intestine as well as effects on neurotransmitters like serotonin.

      Good luck with everything.

  41. 92 Kathy December 26, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Hi Peter –

    I am trying to determine how the dosage of a Bi-est cream compares to the Vivelle Dot dosage I am currently on. Have been having difficulty finding the correct mechanism to compare. Currently I am on 0.0375 Vivelle Dot and recently got prescribed by a different practitioner 80/20 Biest of 2.5 MG/0.5 ML. I am also currently on 100 mg daily Prometrium and considering switching to a cream. I haven’t yet decided if I’m going to switch to the Bi-est or not and am in research mode. Can you please help me understand how to compare the daily estradiol dosage between those two formulas? I really appreciate your blog as it’s been really educational reading it. Thanks for the help!

    Kathy

    • 93 thecompounder January 17, 2011 at 10:34 am

      Hi Kathy,
      It’s very difficult to come up with an “equivalent” bi-est dose to Vivelle dose. The strengths as they are described on the labels pertain to different things. On the Vivelle, the 0.0375mg/day pertains to a blood level achieved by using the patch. On the bi-est, the 2.5mg/0.5ml pertains to the amount of bi-est in the cream itself. Also, the bi-est, has estriol, which the Vivelle does not, therefore muting the effects of the stronger estradiol.

      Basically, switching from Vivelle to a bi-est is kind of like starting from scratch with the bi-est. It will require some symptom monitoring and possibly some dose adjustment to come up with the perfect dose. I hope that helps.

      Peter

  42. 94 Jennifer C January 23, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    This is my 4th attempt to be on BHRT with different doctors each time. I have done the saliva test and my Dr precribed Biest 1 mg/0.1 ml cream in the morning, progesterone 150 mg SR capsule at bedtime, 25 mg DHEA in the morning as well. I have been taking biest/prog/dhea for 4 months now. At first things seemed fine except biest cream has caused blisters on my arms, thighs then my body became very itchy. Despite my regimen of working out my weight and breast have increased,I get headaches, a few hot flashes and insomnia some nights. Between 12:00 – 4:00 p.m. energy level drops and I become very sleepy.I have done another saliva test recently and have some blood test to do before scheduling an appointment with my doctor. I am 64 years old and I would like to feel better from day to day and to enjoy my retired but busy life.. Is it worth continuing on this treatment or am it wasting money.

    • 95 thecompounder February 5, 2011 at 2:17 pm

      Hi Jennifer,

      It certainly sounds like your hormones are not optimally balanced if you are experiencing those side effects. First and formost, what is your adrenal and thyroid function like? The energy drop in the mid afternoon sounds like diminished adrenal function so that should be checked out with a 4 point saliva test for sure. Some of the other side effects you mention sound like estrogen dominance or estrogen excess. It may be worth talking with your doctor about lowering the dose of your hormones (especially the estrogen) and then slowly titrating them up to see how you respond. It’s always easier to go up on a hormone dose than try to get hormones out of the body.

      I wouldn’t give up yet. This type of therapy can take a little tinkering to get the dosages right. I usually tell my patients to expect around 3 months of dosage adjustments before we have the regimen optimized.

      Good luck.

      Peter

  43. 96 Jennifer C January 23, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    I am looking forward to a response from my email. Unfortunately, I did not indicate this in the box provided.

  44. 97 Diane February 5, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    I am a postmenopausal 59 year old that has been given boidentical hormones for just about a year. My latest blood results are: Estradiol 68.9; FSH 71.1; and Testrosterone 125.11. About 5 months ago I noticed a yellow staining in my panties. I really did not think to much of it until 2 months ago I began spotting. At first the bleeding was minimal then I had to wear a pad. I was taking Progest Troche (100mg) then was told to increase to 150mg at night. The bleeding as diminished but I still spot sometimes during the day. My questions are 1. WHAT IS GOING ON IN MY BODY? I have not had a period or spotted in over 15 years… 2. SHOULD I BE BLEEDING NOW? 3. SHOULD I STOP THE BIOIDENTICAL HORMONES?

  45. 98 Cindy February 11, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Hi
    I have no regular doctors where I’m at that prescribe HRT from a compounding pharmacy. So I am on Vivelle dot patch 0.1 and using Estrace vaginal cream. The problem is the Estrace is not strong enough. I was wandering if I could increase the dose myself by crushing a Estradiol pill and mixing in with a gram of cream? Estradiol is the ingredient in Estrace cream. How does a compounding pharmacy receive the raw product,In powder form? Would I need to make it into a paste first.

    Thanks

    • 99 thecompounder February 21, 2011 at 3:31 pm

      Hi Cindy,

      I wouldn’t recommend that. Compounding pharmacies use many sophisticated pieces of equipment to make sure that a product like a vaginal cream is accurately dosed and mixed properly with the lowest particle size. My suggestion is that if you doctor is not familiar with how to order a compounded medication, have the compounding pharmacy you want to work with contact your doctor to help facilitate the process. Most are happy to do so.

      Good luck.

  46. 100 Debbie February 13, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Dear Peter,
    I have some questions that I thought you might be able to help me with…I am a 51 yr old woman perimenopausal (started menses 9) and I started (Oct) into bioidentical with an Ob who has been practicing in this field for some years. After my bloodwork came back she started me on 1ml (4%) which makes it 40 mg progesterone, 1/2 gm natural Armor thyroid, and testosterone cream (1/4 gram of 2.5%).

    When I started in October…progesterone days 12-26, testosterone every night, thyroid in the early a.m. Now the first month I was more symptomatic w. breakthrough bleeding but period was on time. I get my period every 28 days still. Second month less symptoms bloating, moodiness, etc. Now after then my period did not come until the 27th of Dec. My recheck was 3 weeks ago and I told my doc I feel as if something is not right. My bloodwork looked good she said. I asked her why she does not use salivary testing she stated that there are different thoughts on that and she does not believe the scientific evidence on that form of testing is conclusive. My thyroid was on target, progesterone seemed fine, and testosterone needed to be increased to 1/2 gram. She also had me start the progesterone again as if I had a period. I am still here, day 49 since last period (once again) waiting, waiting…I feel as like someone needs to pop me with a pin! I am moody, tired, bloated for sure and regaining some weight in my abdominal region. I have a called in (although I feel I was blown off the last time due to being early in treatment and perimenopausal), to discuss maybe lowering my progesterone to 1/2 ml=20 mg? She wanted to increase! Any thoughts? Help…I feel like garbage.
    Thanks

    • 101 thecompounder February 21, 2011 at 3:38 pm

      Hi Debbie,

      Definitely symptoms are worth paying attention to and their importance should not be diminished because lab values look “normal.” Based on what you are reporting, it seems that something is out of balance. Several studies have shown that once or twice daily hormone administration does not show up in blood work. I would recommend finding another practitioner or compounding pharmacy that can set you up with a saliva test just to get another take on what your hormone levels are. Your current tests may be right, but it never hurts to look at the levels in a different way. If you are going to do a saliva test, I would recommend looking at adrenal function (4x cortisol) because abnormal cortisol output can contribute to many of the symptoms you are reporting.

      I hope that helps.

  47. 103 Debbie February 13, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    I would also like to add that I have asked my practioner about salivary testing (she does not believe in it) and about the possiblity of adrenal exhaustion…she does not believe in that either :(

  48. 105 Heidi April 14, 2011 at 4:01 am

    Dear Peter,
    I am about to start BHRT, and I have a question. I have asked my compounding pharmacist this question, and she has given me an answer, but it doesn’t make sense to me.

    I did type of saliva test that had me take a saliva sample every other day for my whole cycle. The results showed that my progesterone and estradiol were both very low, my testosterone was slightly low, and my progesterone:estradiol ratio was about 47:1 (which is estrogen dominance, if I’m understanding the books I’m reading).

    My doctor had not worked with BHRT before, so I requested a consult from my trusted compounding pharmacist. She recommended supplementing progesterone and estrogen to start with, since my testosterone was just below the normal range. She gave me Bi-est 1 mg daily in the morning for days 1-12, and progesterone 100 mg daily at bedtime for days 12-24. Both compounds are made up in a transdermal cream base.

    I’m concerned that using the Bi-est before I get my progesterone level up might make my estrogen dominance symptoms worse. My pharmacist says that the dose of progesterone she gave me will compensate for the estrogen, but I can’t see how that will help for the first 11 days. I have severe time-limited mood swings on days 12-14 of my cycle. Could you give me your opinion please?

    • 106 thecompounder May 2, 2011 at 11:06 am

      Hi Heidi,

      I apologize for taking so long to get back to you.

      From your description of the saliva test you did, it sounds like you did what we call a “cycle map” where your hormone levels are tested every couple of days over the course of your cycle. The benefit for a test like this (if you are still having a menstrual cycle) is that your estrogen levels should be different at different times in your cycle. A rough explanation of this is that your estrogen levels are high in the first half of your cycle, with low progesterone, and your progesterone levels are high in the second half of your cycle, with moderately low estrogen. Therefore, many practitioners dose the hormones in a cyclic pattern to mimic this pattern. Evidence suggests that this pattern certainly confers the desired endometrial protection of the progesterone. Many patients, however, get direct beneficial effects from the progesterone, like improved sleep quality and decreased anxiety, which you would certainly want all month long. So this may be a conversation you need to have with your practitioner if you are suffering without the progesterone on day 1-12.

      Having done the cycle map, it will be easier to custom tailor a regimen to you that addresses specific imbalances throughout the course of your cycle and this may be what your practitioner is doing with the regimen you described.

      I hope that helps.

      Peter

  49. 107 Tammy June 7, 2011 at 6:00 am

    Long story–I will be 52 in August & had been having periods every mth albeit 2 days of them would be extremely flooding. I had a hysterectomy (everything removed) on April 4th (2 mths ago) due to fibroids kept growing. They put a Climara patch (which I had a few hot flashes with) on me afterward. My GYN changed it to a Vivielle Dot Patch .1 when I returned for my 1 week incision check up & Ambien at night because I was having insomnia. I also had started having episodes of nervousness so he prescribed 1 Zoloft every morning 50 mg. which seemed to help at first. I had not been (& still don’t) having hot flashes/night sweats at all on the Vivielle patch but about 2 weeks later I started feeling nervous/anxiety again that eventually turned into a full blown attack with chills, hard pounding out of my chest, muscle jerking, insomnia–the works that lasted from 6 p.m. until I could get in to see my GYN the next morning. I asked if it could be the hormones & he said I was on the highest dose of the patch & could be my body getting use to the hormones but since I was in such an extreme attack condition he prescribed me Xanax 1mg morning & night to go along with my Zoloft in the a.m. Almost like a miracle I was sleeping (without the Ambien) & felt more like myself–no more nervousness. Since I knew Xanax can be addictive & was not use to taking any medicines prior to my hysterectomy, I wanted to start getting off of them. I halved the morning & night doses of Xanax for 2 weeks then went down to only 1/2 mg only at night (while still taking the Zoloft in the a.m.). Within 3-4 days my anxiety came back like it started out before I had the meltdown. I’ve heard of the bio-identical hormones & the sliva test & wondered if it would relieve my anxiety (heart pounding/nervousness) & let me get off of the Zoloft & Xanax completely. Have you ran into this type of situation before? Thanks…I’m not having the hot flashes/night sweats but hate feeling scared/anxious 24/7. I’m desperate. What could be off? Do you think they could help my situation?

    • 108 thecompounder June 13, 2011 at 2:51 pm

      Hi Tammy,

      Thanks for the post. Dispite the common practice of doctors putting women with a hysterectomy on an estrogen only regimen, there is no scientific evidence to support this approach. The only reason doctors do it is because they are no longer concerned about the risk of endometrial cancer. However, a good understanding of endocrine physiology would lead to the logical conclusion that anyone on estrogen therapy needs progesterone because progesterone augments and supports the effects of estrogen and vise versa. Furthermore, progesterone supports healthy sleep cycles and has natural anti-anxiety properties. I think its totally reasonable to ask your doctor for progesterone therapy and if he/she says you don’t need it, I would find someone who has a better understanding of the physiology of the sex hormones. For more information on progesterone, see my earlier blog post The Power of Progesterone.

      I hope that helps.

      Peter

  50. 109 cindy June 14, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Hi
    I am on vivelle dot patch 0.1 and I would like to switch to Estrace pills.Could you tell me the equivalent dosage? In my research it seems to be 2mg.
    Thanks

    • 110 thecompounder June 16, 2011 at 4:52 pm

      I am curious as to why you want to switch to estrace pills.

      • 111 cindy June 19, 2011 at 9:57 am

        I want to switch to Estrace pills because of the cost. Estradiol in pill form can be purchased at most pharmacies for about $10 for a three months supply. Patches even with insurance are very expensive.

      • 112 thecompounder July 2, 2011 at 6:02 pm

        Yes, I totally understand your rationale. Some of the patches can be quite expensive.

        However, from a strictly health-related point-of-view, I do prefer topical administration of estrogens over oral administration. The oral estrogens have quite a bit of liver metabolism before entering the general circulation and recent clinical trials have indicated that they increase estrogen-related blood clotting potentially leading to heart attacks and strokes. You might check-in with a compounding pharmacy in your area to see if they can do something that fits your budget. It may be worth it in the long run. Good luck with everything.

        Peter

  51. 113 Diane July 4, 2011 at 8:36 am

    I started natural progesterone and gained alot of weight. I stopped for about two weeks and stated on BI-Est 50:50 I feel very bloated and very irritable. I dropped down half the dose feel better but have bloatted. Do I need progesterone with my BIEST? My hair is falling out and all this weight gain I almost want to stop everything. I am 67 and had a hysterrectomy 30 years ago and know I need something. I had never had weight problem very small and since I started hormones I

    • 114 thecompounder July 5, 2011 at 5:52 pm

      I can’t think of any time where you would want to take an estrogen without progesterone. If you are experiencing side effects with your regimen, you need to talk with your prescriber about possible dose adjustments. Balancing your hormones should make you feel good (or at least not bad).

      Peter

  52. 115 Virginia July 8, 2011 at 11:02 am

    If I do show a cortisol problem in my zrt testing, what is the treatment?
    Thanks

    • 116 thecompounder July 11, 2011 at 9:49 pm

      The treatment varies depending your presentation and medical situation. I recommend working with a practitioner experienced in treating adernal fatigue to help you with a treatment plan. I would also recommend the books “Adrenal Fatigue” by James Wilson and “Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers” by Robert Sapolsky as good resources information.

      Peter

  53. 117 Karen July 9, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    This is a very informative blog. Thanks for putting out such useful information. I have a few questions.

    My practitioner has prescribed Bi-est along with progesterone, but the 80/20 ratio of Bi-est. Since you mention the newer thinking is that 35% estriol is closer to a woman’s physiologic levels, so then pharmacies are making 50/50 in response, can you cite an article or two for me to follow the studies?

    Also, you mention in one post on BHRT that the body is likely to reestablish the correct amounts of estrogen by converting estradiol to estrone and estriol. So… does this mean the 50/50 product is not really essential, and that the 20/80 will work itself out, or no?

    thank you,

    best,
    Karen

    • 118 thecompounder July 13, 2011 at 12:24 pm

      Hi Karen,

      All good questions. The rationalle for the 80/20 Bi-est was originally mentioned in Dr. Jonathan Wrights book from the 80s and later published in Altern Med Review. 1999. 4(4): 266-270. The study that led to the 50/50 rationalle is in Xu X, Duncan AM, Merz-Demlow BE, Phipps W, Kurzer MS, Menstrual Effects on Urinary Estrogen Metabolites. Clin Endocrin Metab. Nov 1999; 84(11).

      I don’t know if one way is really “right” or “wrong”, but one thing to keep in mind is that the Bi-est 50/50 is much more potent than the 80/20 (about 3 times as much) due to the higher amount of estradiol and the lower amount of competition from the estriol. Estradiol does efficiently get converted to estriol but estriol does not. Estriol is more of an end product metabolite that is excreted in the urine.

      Peter

  54. 119 K July 21, 2011 at 5:44 am

    I am a 23 year old girl about to start taking bi-est. I can’t find any information about someone as young as me taking these hormones and my only concerns are any long term effects. I guess I’m just looking for any advice or comments :) thanks

    • 120 thecompounder August 14, 2011 at 9:39 pm

      Hormone imbalaces can affect women of any age. I have some patients even younger than you. A good place to start is just getting a good assessment of your symptoms (what they are, when they happen, etc.), then consult with a practitioner knowledgeable in treating women your age.

      Peter

  55. 121 Amanda August 9, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    I am hoping that someone can help me out here. I am starting estrogen therapy today, the Vivelle® dot. I have been on Prometrium 100mg oral capsules 2x a day for a total of 200 daily. I started out trying to figure out why I have had a headache, confusion, insomnia, hot flashes, etc, for the past 3-4 months. After the endocrinologist put me on the prometrium after running labs that showed my progesterone at .4 & .8, she and I thought it might be perimenopause. My estradiol was also so low, never getting above 25 from 6 different labs. I went to the obgyn for biodidentical estrogen. She adamantly told me that my symptoms were depression and related to pcos, which I vehemently denied and asked her, begged her to let me try the estrogen. What I want to know, is am I taking enough of the estrogen? She told me that it was the highest available and was irrelevant for a woman my age, 32. Should I really look for someone to help me get compounded treatment? Thanks in advance for any help!

  56. 122 Glenys August 10, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    Too Much Progesterone
    After 3 years on progesterone with 4-5days/mth break the progesterone now causes insomnia and a pounding heart and I now feel better without it although as I am taking estriol/estradiol (7.5mg/.075mgl) every other day, I am not sure how long I should break, with the progesterone.
    My saliva tests have previously indicated high levels of progesterone, so I suspect this is the cause? If so how do I bring my progesterone level down. (supplements?) and How long will it take to reduce my accumulated progesterone.
    thank you

  57. 123 Nena August 16, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    I was using 1 ml biest cream and 25mg/ml progesterone cream for 25 days of month with 5 days off. But I started getting breast tenderness and actually felt better during the 5 days off. So I cut both dosages in half and I no longer have an issues with breast tenderness. However I am having some problems with sleep. Would it be appropriate to increase the progesterone again back to where it was? Will that help with sleep? Please advise.

    I also noted that I was losing more hair in the shower and am not sure why. I am low in DHEA and my doctor prescribed 10mg. I am taking only 5 mg to start every other day. Does DHEA, biest or progesterone creams contribute to hair loss?

    Thank you.

  58. 124 Virginia August 16, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Is there a compounded hormone for birth control?

  59. 126 Brigid August 17, 2011 at 9:14 am

    Please help as my dr. is on vacation. I’m on 75mg progesterone cream twice a day for heavy bleeding. I’m 51 years and was bleeding for two months, iron level at 2. Progesterone cream stopped bleeding within 2 days. Had bleeding 3 weeks later which was 6 days and though heavy had no clots. 16 days later had another heavy bleed which has been ongoing for 3 weeks. Is the progesterone dose too high? Please give me some advice as I am truly worn out physically and emotionally.

  60. 127 Jo August 17, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Hi Peter,
    Thanks for this Blog.. It is very helpful. I am almost 50. Went to a naturopath and I did the testing through her. She has put me on Bi-Est 1.25 /GM cream that I apply in the am and pm. Then I am on Progesterone 3% cream (30mg) in the evening only. She has recommended that I take everyday but I am wondering, after reading the comments, if I should only use the Progesterone on days 14-28 and Estrogen on days 1-25. Can you tell me what the best dosing is? I have pretty much eliminated my hot flashes, insomnia, headaches, and lost a little bit of weight but I am experiencing breast tenderness and not sure what to do about it. Can you shed some light on this?
    Thanks,

  61. 128 Diane August 28, 2011 at 8:26 am

    Diane again, I am taking Bi-Est(50:50) 1-20mg/ml I felt so bad on that dose so I dropped down to half that dose. My hair is falling out but I feel better. Why would my hair be falling out? The dose I am taking is that low? Please help
    God Bless,
    Diane

  62. 129 Tanya September 8, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Hello, Very interesting and informative site. I read books of Dr Wright and Dr. Hertoghe. My wish was to go on BRT to get some protection for the heart and delay cognitive decline. I am 62 years old, 10 years postmenopausal, have some hot flashes, insomnia, etc. Reading your comments and posts from multiple people who are on BHRT, it looks like weight gain is inevitable with BHRT. Just wanted your opinion about the weight gain in the first place!. Another question abouot phytoestrogens (overthecounter) meds (black cohosh) that have some low doses. Should they alo be balanced by progesterone.

    Thank you very much

    Tanya

    • 130 thecompounder September 14, 2011 at 10:42 am

      I certainly don’t think weight gain is inevtable. If you were to start the therapy and weight gain was happening (expecially rapid weight gain) I would talk to your prescriber and see whether your hormones are really balanced appropriately. I’m not a big fan of phytoestrogens because they are not bioidentical (i.e. identical to human hormones) and therfore have unknown effects on the cells and unknown metabolism in the body. Plus, I find that they just aren’t that effective except for mild symptoms. Black cohosh has some research behind it for treating mild to moderate hot flashes, but is not really effective in treating other menopausal symptoms. I’ve found that black cohosh only works in about half of the people who try it for mild to moderate hot flashes.

      Good luck.

      Peter

  63. 131 Sallie September 19, 2011 at 4:23 am

    My doctor just started me on HRT and I’m not very happy as I’m not seen any reall improvement. So, far I’ve done one week at 2mg/ml of Test; 40mg/ml Progest; 20mg/ml 7-KETOS-DHEA; 1.5mg/ml of Biest. Nothing changed and my hot flashes and night sweats are horrible! So, the doctor increased the dosage by 1/2 and still no results. I’m about to go insane from the lack of sleep and night sweats. How long using the HRT should I be noticing an improvement? I was talking BC pills, Yaz, before all this and didn’t have any trouble with hot flashes and night sweats. Should I see about increasing the dosage again or wait and see if the meds works? And how long should I wait.

    • 132 thecompounder September 27, 2011 at 11:35 am

      Hi Sallie,

      It’s always difficult to say, but I would make sure whomever is prescribing your hormones is also looking at your thyroid levels and your adrenal function by looking at your cortisol levels.

      Peter

  64. 133 Traci HIll September 27, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Howdie all,

    I am writing for my 17 year old niece, Kelsey. She has horrible headaches with her period. Aside from that she seems pretty healthy with the acception of being wayyyyy too skinny. What can she take/do during her period? Any hormone creams, herbs…ect

    Thank you for listening,

    Bellabeehee

  65. 134 thecompounder September 27, 2011 at 11:37 am

    The longer you leave it on the better. The general rule of thumb is to waiit at least 2 hours.

    Peter

  66. 135 Johane November 14, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    I love this site…so much information! My question is, if my libido is remaining pretty close to non-existent, is it possible that my HRT is still too low? My saliva test initially showed that my free cortisol was elevated at 28, and my cortisol load at 46. My DHEA was depressed at 2, and Progesterone at 21.My blood test showed Estradio at <70, and my Testosterone at 2.3. I was initially started on 100 mg of Progesterone (Prometrium) (before bedtime) and 1.25mg/0.25ml of Bi-est (once a day). That didn't seem to make a difference, so after a month my Progesterone was increased to 200 mg (still before bedtime) and Bi-est 2mg/0.25ml twice a day. This is my second week at these new levels. My weight is creeping up, I still have heart palpitations, but my anxiety seems to have decreased somewhat. My sleeping is definitely much better. So, is lack of libido and continued heart palpitations a good indication that there are still adjustments that need to be made? Maybe the estrogen isn't yet high enough, or maybe I should try that 50/50? Thanks for your guidance.

  67. 137 Kristen November 17, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    I’m 41 years old and had a hysterectomy in 2010, but my ovaries were not removed. Prior to my surgery, I was taking birth control pills for about 6 years to help with my PMS symptoms, mentrual cycle, and acne. I stopped the birth control pills after surgery. I felt great after my surgery for about 4 to 5 months, then went into a depression, had insomnia, acne, brain fog, anxiety. I have finally convinced my OBGYN to use bioidentical estrogen and progesterone for the PMS symptoms even though she is not comfortable with the off labeled use. She says the blood work says I’m still ovulating and my estrogen and progesterone are within normal range, but I’m not having periods, so we don’t know when I’m ovulating. We are experimenting with Vivelle Dot 0.05mg and compounded Progesterone 5mg cream for 3 months. My question is.. ..What is the lowest dose of estrogen and progesterone I can use to prevent ovulation and PMS symptoms?? I’m a pharmacist and I can’t final any data on a conversion/equivalent chart from birth control or synthetic hormones to bioidentical for that purpose. I haven’t done the extensive hormone blood work or saliva testing due to $$$$. Do you have any input on the matter? My hunch is that the Vivelle 0.05 mg dose may be too high. Thanks.

    • 138 thecompounder November 29, 2011 at 11:01 am

      There is not data with conversions from the hormones in birth control pills and bioidentical hormones and well there shouldn’t. The synthic hormones in birth control pills have completely different pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic profiles than the bioidentical hormones, plus we are really trying to get away from a one size fits all approach to treating women with hormones.

      Symptom resolution is an important piece of the therapeutic evaluation of any hormone replacement regimen. Lab testing is the other important piece. I recommend going forward with your regimen until you feel that you are experiencing adequate symptom relief, then follow up with tests to make sure you are not giving yourself excessive doses. If you are on Vivelle, a blood test for estradiol will be adequate. The blood test may underreport actual intracellular (of free unbound) levels of the progesterone with topical administration, in which case a saliva test of that specific hormone may be a good idea.

  68. 139 Jill December 2, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Do you fine that commercially produced products of estradiol such as the patches are given at a higher dose then what would be normally given for menopause symptoms from a compounding pharmacy?

  69. 141 Josie December 21, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    Hi

    Id like to know if the combo of bi-est / progesterone cream (.5 ml) is known for weight gain

    I have always had to watch my weight as I gain easily, I am also taking DHEA 7-keto 20mg x 1 per day (this rather than DHEA as I am trying to avoid more facial hair growth)

    Id appreciate your thoughts on meno bio identicals and weight gain

    Thank You Kindly
    Josie

    • 142 thecompounder December 22, 2011 at 7:52 pm

      If a patient gets rapid weight gain when starting a bioidentical hormone regimen, that is often due to fluid retention for excessive estrogen effects (aka “estrogen dominance”). Other than that, I rarely, if ever get patients reporting that the hormones caused long-term weight gain.

      I’d appreciate any comments from readers as to your experience with your hormone regimen and your weight.

      Thanks, Peter

    • 143 Josie March 30, 2012 at 10:11 pm

      Thank you for your reply I appreciate it very much. Can you help me out with another question please ?

      I would like to ask if can tell me the amounts of each product in my BI-EST cream, the label reads bi-est / progesterone 8/120 MG/G.

      I am in Australia so I have no clue if RX Compounds are written up the same where you are, but would really like to ask so I can investigate the cream further.

      I am sure I am having to much progesterone, as I also take 100 mg capsules along with the cream. I am just not feeling right these past months and have been reading a lot about progerterone excess and I am showing more symptoms than I like.

      Again I Thank You I know you must be a very busy person and I appreciate you time and Knowledge more than you’ll every know

      Thank You Kindly

      Regards Josie

  70. 144 Charlotte December 27, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Hi. I am a 60 year old post menopausal woman. A month ago I started taking biest 0.6 prog 100mg/ml crm – .5 ml per day. I became irritable, bloated and rapidly gained 5 pounds. I stopped using it two weeks ago. I am still bloated and uncomfortable. How long will this bloating last?

  71. 145 Estelle January 9, 2012 at 6:52 am

    Hi,
    Just read your site with interest. I would love some advice. Briefly started perimenopause in Feb 2009. Symptoms started in October, anxiety, depression, dizziness and anger. Oestrogen level was 60. Saw a doctor was prescribed oestrogel and testogel. Made my way up to 4 squirts a day and one quarter of testogel. Could not tolerate prog at all, tried utrogestan made me crazy. By this time oestrogen levels peaked 800. Had a total hysterectomy in May 2011, stopped oestrogel cos wasn’t working, tried premarin, that didn’t work. So 1 weeks ago started on elleste solo 1mg in morning and 1mg at night, awful side effects since starting, headache, more anxiety, fuzzy feeling in head, depression and anger. had a few good afternoons then 4 days ago increased to 2mg in morning and 1mg at night and felt worse again. When you increase something does it have a negative impact again before it gets in your system. Still on testogel. My oestrogen is 315 now. love your comments
    Thanks so much Peter

  72. 146 linda January 11, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    Asking: I had my transdermal bi-est cream prescription switched from one compounding pharmacy to another, and am having a horrible time adjusting to what is supposed to be the very same prescription. My ears are ringing, and I have too much nervous energy and can’t sleep whereas with the old prescription, I always felt serene and positive and it actually made me feel calm. I’m still taking the same progesterone pill. Why is there such a difference between compounding pharmacies for the exact prescription with the same base?

    • 147 thecompounder January 21, 2012 at 11:19 am

      Hi Linda,
      That is an excellent question. With compounded medications, unlike with mass manufacturered ones, there can be big quality difference between the product provided by one pharmacy versus another. If you haven’t seen it already, I recommend you take a look at my blog post How To Evaluate A Compounding Pharmacy. This post has some useful questions to ask any compounding pharmacy before getting your prescriptions there. I hope that helps.

      Peter

  73. 148 Krystal January 27, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Hello,

    I’m 47 yrs old and have had a surgical hysterectomy approx 7 yrs ago and it has been a battle trying to get balanced, and honestly I’m at my end. Too make a long story short I went from patches to compounded creams to oral estradiol. The last 3 yrs or so I was on Estradiol 1mg sublingual in am and t Estradiol 1 mg sublingual pm. No progesterone or testosterone. I tried the oral progesterone 100mg through a conventional pharmacy and had GI bloating and wasn’t comfortable taking it. Also was put on Testosterone at one point 2.5 mg and gave me a very edgy feeling and developed facial hair. So for a few years I just continued on the estradiol (generic)1mg SL am and pm. This seemed to control my hot flashes. Now this dose has controlled my hot flashes but I kept on getting vaginal yeast infections, insomnia, mood swings, fatigue with exercise, and anxiety. Sometimes chilling at night and dizziness. So I cut down my evening dose to .5 mg SL for quite some time and no hot flashes but still problems going to sleep, dry skin, loss of elasticity of skin. Finally a physician gave me some progesterone cream 40mg/gm and was told to try 1 pump 20 mg at night. I think it helped me some but now have problems with my GI with bloating and reflux symptoms. I do have IBS and IC so notice these two areas seem to flare up with progesterone.

    Ok..well decided to change physician because wasn’t feeling right and was worried I was getting too much estradiol and wanted to go back to a topical system and give it a try again. In the past it didn’t seem to hold me and I would get hot flashes. My new physician started me off on Biest 5 mg cream 80/20 ratio and he told me to start out on 1 pump a day in am. Also to continue on my progesterone cream since I had it and use 2 pumps (40mg). Well the first thing I noticed with this change is I developed this strange feeling in my head towards afternoon a buzzing feeling along with a dull headache. My neck felt tense and if I turned my head real fast felt dizzy. In the past when I felt like estrogen was low my neck would tense up, just muscle tension. It wasn’t long and we up the dose to 1 pump in morning and 1 pump at night. This seemed to work ok for a while and before long I was having chills. In the evenings I would get so cold. My hands and feet cold, and goosebumps from head to toe. I would go to bed and feel chilled and as soon as I would awake it would turn into full on sweats. Something I really never had. Now my nernousness and anxiety seemed better on this topical creams. I did get real tired at night and the chills followed by sweats. We increased the dose to 2 pumps in am and 1 pump at night. The more I would take the worse the symptoms. It finally came to a point that I just couldn’t deal with these symptoms and went back to my estradiol SL dose of 1mg in am and .5 mg in pm along with the progest 20mg cream. Again on this dose no chills or night sweats but have brain fog, short term memory problems, gi bloating, fatigue, SOB with exercise, and problems sleeping.

    So I’m wanted to try the biest and progesterone again, but problem is I just can’t figure out how to start and my symptoms are always confusing if too much or too little estrogen. I almost feel like maybe even though I was having those chills followed with hot flashes that maybe it was too much estrogen because didn’t matter how much more I added I still had these awful chills followed by dripping sweats. So any suggestions on a good way to start back and also figure out dominance vs deficiency? Also the chills and hot flashes seemed to peak after I was on the creams 6-8 wks.

    Thanks for any suggestions.

  74. 149 Barbara February 2, 2012 at 5:23 am

    Hi, I’m sitting typing and experiencing heart palpitations which have come about since taking Biest1 / Dhea 25/ 75Pregnenol 250mg Progesterone as a troche – for the past 3months. I’m 55 and have had a hysterectomy(massive fibroid) 2 years ago and retained ovaries. Hot flushes and vaginal atrophy went but my heart is certainly not right now. Blood all normal except for elevated cortisol. FSH 102. Hormones all very very low. Im a lean build and prone to anxiety.
    My doctor has given me adrenal support herbs but so far heart still palpitating. I walk everyday for 30 mins and eat a gluten free low carb diet. Getting hormones right is so difficult and now I’m wondering weather to stop the hormones just to see if the palpitations go away but of
    course those sweats and vaginal problems will start for sure. Very interested in your opinion. Seems like I have swapped one sack full of problems for another. Thanks

    Barbara

  75. 150 joan February 6, 2012 at 10:31 am

    I have been on bio’s for 2 yrs now. All three hormones. I had severe symptoms, even throwing up with hot flashes, having pull off the road, feeling like I would, and HAVE passed our for a few seconds.

    BUT, the reason I wanted on the bio’s was for the severe migraines almost daily. I wanted to end my life they were so horribly painful.

    Imitrex works but Dr. will only give you 9 a month.

    The bio’s after 4 months simmered them now. I get 2 migraines a month, but still have headaches, neck tension daily. But tolerable with a quarter of an Imitrex. I have a life again, just keep Imitrex with me always.

    I really wanted them to go away, period. The hormones are costly. I never know when it will come on and how bad it will be, so I don’t make overnight plans ever.

    Why am I still having them? The Dr. have tried all different combo of doses, and on the highest of Estrogen, if I lower it, the pain increases. Am I doing something wrong?

    • 151 Noelle May 20, 2012 at 10:29 am

      I have exactly your symptoms. I felt very bad with daily migraines during my pre-menopause years, and I was taking zomig daily.BRT helped, only 1 migraine per week usually relieved with now 1/4 pill. After lab tests, no matter what I do, my estrogens can’t go up. Dr said it comes from my adrenals. I added Pregnenolone 12.5 to 25 mg/day. I feel better, but still not perfect. Less migraines, but still here and then.

  76. 152 Leigh February 7, 2012 at 9:18 am

    I am really confused – my gyn has one opionion of bio identical progestrone and biest and my HRT doctor has another. I am currently on ‘natural’ progestrone w/dosage of 1/4 tsp twice a day. On the container it says 1000mg/4oz. Biest is e2 .50mg e3 .75mg per day. Does this sound right?

  77. 153 Supira February 10, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    I have been on Biest for 10 years with good results. At what point should I stop taking it?

  78. 154 Jennifer March 21, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    I am a 61 year old menopausal woman. I have hot flashes etc.. My MD said she would give me some Bio-Identical Hormones and wrote a prescription for Bi-Est 1.25 mg/ml apply 0.1-0.5 ml daily start at 0.1 and increase as tolerated, Progesterone 50 mg/ml apply 0.5ml daily at bedtime and testosterone 10 mg/ml apply 0.1 ml daily. Does this sound O.K. for someone like me? I know you are not my doctor but I need some guidance. My MD seemed a little unsure. Thanks for your assistance

  79. 155 Sansra March 30, 2012 at 8:44 am

    HI!

    I have just started a mist and the doctor also put me on a estradial, progesterone, testaterone cream. I am supposed to put “4″ clicks on me everyday and it says it is 1 gram. Cannot seen to find out how many mgs I am supposed to be taking as 1 gram is 1,000 milligrams and oh that sounds high! Anyone know?

    Sandra

  80. 157 Dawn May 4, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Hi Peter,
    I am not sure if the last message was sent or not. So, I will send another one. Initially in life, I only had menstrual migraines but as I got older, things changed. I am now 43 year old and I have been taking progesterone cream now for 3 years, since 2009. I started have daily headaches in 2007 (MRI, everything was negative). An experienced gynecologist who had experience with bioidentical harmones checked my blood progesterone level in 2009 and found low progesterone. It was less than 0.02. I was then started on progesterone cream and my daily headaches completely got relieved! So, it was felt headaches were related to low progesterone. However in 2011, my periods became irregular with bleeding every 2-3 wks, and I realized that I was taking 600mg of progesterone cream during my periods to prevent headaches. Periods were all over the place. In Jan -March 2012, I was taking 600mg of progesterone cream daily and in April, my doctor added biest to my daily progesterone to prevent breakthrough bleeding due to high progesterone thinning the uterus lining. Now, I take 600mg of progesterone daily along with 2 mg of Biest. I am not sure if this is okey or not when I read that I am supposedly on a very high progesterone cream dose. I am still having menstrual periods every 3 wks and somehow I can’t seem to change that. I still get headaches, which I can’t figure out if they are from estrogen dominance (since supposedly my body is producing estrogen because I still have menstrual periods). However, if I try to decrease estrogen, I start having breakthrough bleeding due to high progesterone dose that I am taking daily. What do you recommend I do?
    I appreciate your help and advise.
    Dawn.

  81. 158 Mari May 5, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    I am starting Biest5 PROG25 Today May 5, 2012 and also starting Synthroid 75 mcg and i am not sure if I should start them together. Because if I have any side affects which one would be. and if you think its ok to take them at the same time? I have never taken either one. I was on the cream but was never faith full. Please help

    • 159 thecompounder May 10, 2012 at 6:25 pm

      Thyroid should always be taken with an empty stomach. I usually recommend taking it at least 1 hour before any medications. Since your bi-est is in a cream form, it won’t really interact with the thyroid, so you can take them at the same time if that is most convenient.

      Peter

  82. 160 Tracy May 9, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    I am 49 yrs old and taking both progesterone from a compound pharmacy and bi-est. I was taking 100mg of progesterone for about a year and had no side effects. after a while I started having more night sweats and trouble sleeping and my doctor increased it to 150mg and at the same time started me on bi-est. I am taking .1 ML currently in the morning. Over the past 6 months I have gained 5 pounds and retain a lot of water. No matter what I do the weight wont come off and keeps creeping up. I eat very clean and workout and the only changes was the bi-est. I had horrible insomnia for almost 3 weeks when my doc put me on the bi-est and that helped quickly. The dose is so small she says.. Could that small amount have caused the weight gain and water retention. She is suggestion cutting my bi-est in half. Could the increase in progesterone also be a contributor? Any suggestions. thank you

  83. 161 Deborah May 11, 2012 at 7:05 am

    In October of 2010 I started on bio’s I gained 30 lbs slowly, Dr tries to tell me its my eating habits, they are no different than before, I excersize regularly, no changes in the blood work, he increases to biest 80/20 prog test 7.5, i did the increased dose since 1/16/12, I felt fine except for the weight gain, I have worked very hard to lose the weight and I can’t, so I took my last dose the end of April, now my body is screaming at me, with the insomnia,and fever. so I see the other posts saying they are feeling these symptoms when they start the program, is this normal to feel this after getting off of the bios?

  84. 162 mpolom May 16, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    I am 53 years old and in menopause. I have not slept a decent night sleep for 3 years, since it started. 1 1/2 weeks ago I started Estriol 1mg. cream 3 times a week, Bi-est twice a day and armour thyroid. My insomnia is worse, my skin is crawling and I’m snapping at everyone. What is causing this?

  85. 163 Tammy May 17, 2012 at 3:30 am

    What is the difference between progesterone & progestin? I know you recommend it. I was applying a cream that had both Biest & progestin. Started seeing a OB/GYN in January for pellet insertions (some type of estrogen & testosterone) which helps for about 2 months but starts declining after that. She says without a uterus, I don’t need progestin. Pellets make me feel great for a while, but feel at the cost should last longer. Will go back within a week for another round (hopefully she’ll increase the dose/amount of pellets) which will make them last longer this time.

  86. 164 Kirsty May 17, 2012 at 6:06 am

    Hello
    Do you have any experience using bHRT to suppress ovulation? I have PMDD and have been prescribed oestrogel to suppress ovulation. I have “3 pumps” daily, I think each pump is equivalent to 50ugs. Does oestrogel always suppress ovulation or is it possible to to still ovulate? My GYN says it isn’t possible to still ovulate on this dose but I am still getting cyclical sypmtoms.
    Thanks

  87. 165 Karin May 23, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    I am 64 and have been taking bio identicals for about 6 years. Once a day I take a troche containing the following ingredients: P300/TRIE3/TEST0.5
    I have read that the progesterone should be in the range of 100 -200. Do you think my levels are too high? I would like to give up my hormones due to my age but from day one, after feeling terrible for six years, I have felt so much better and have suffered no side effects.


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